Curse

Zubrowka · Jul 10, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

What you're proposing isn't an auction house in the traditional sense. It's more like the trading system used in commodity or stock exchanges. Your auctioneer NPCs are really brokers, bring together anonymous buyers and sellers. Given that items in GW really are commodites, I think such a system is appropriate.

I would tinker with your design a little:

* Instead of displaying all items in one window, assign the types of items to different traders. One would specialize in warrior armour, another in ranger bows, and so on.
* Place all the traders in a Traders' Guild Hall on an island somewhere.
* Make the act of selling symmetric with that of buying. When the "brokage house" cannot immediately fulfill a buy request (the item isn't available at the given price), it will log it as an outstanding buy order. When a seller posts something that meets the criteria, then the order is fulfilled.
* Both the buy and sell window should provide price quotes (the last price at which an item is sold). The buyer or the seller can then revise her offer from the current market price.
* Don't show the number of items available--it isn't useful information. All tradeable items should simply appear in the list.
* The brokage house should always get the best price for buyers.
* It should charge a substantial commission (35% ~50%) as well as a transaction fee. That leaves player-to-player trade pertinent, and more importantly, keeps inflation under control by removing gold from circulation.

JoDiamonds · Jul 10, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Good points, Zubrowka. You've practically described Wall Street, complete with a pit of traders. Cool.

If it was really done that way, it would actually simplify things a great deal, as long as you don't actually add all the crazy things that Wall Street really does. =)

-JoDiamonds, selling short on Vampiric Axes of Fortitude

Galatea · Jul 10, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Zubrowka,

Hey, I like the idea of having a separate trading city on an island, rather than sticking one in every place. As long as they implement the trading center/town/island with many districts (but each still accessing the same system, with the same items & prices), then that'd be a great idea, as it would cut back on lag, etc.. and hopefully then, maybe bad trade spam would just be found in that city.

I agree, a transaction fee or listing fee of some sort - but I think 35-50% is a bit much to cut out?

Anyway, great ideas

and I'm glad to see more contributions & suggestions to help develop this idea.

ANet, I hope you're listening.

rotor · Jul 10, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

I love the AH in FFXI when I used to play it. It had its share of inflation too.

An AH is a wonderfull idea, but is a little complex to make I belive.

A quicker fix until the AH is inplemented would be an upgraded weapons or weapons trader. Because everyone knows that sometimes you are looking for items that don't require any stats to use in the weapons slot and is very hard to come across it. Or sometimes you can be looking for an upgrade but can't find a seller.

Then the merchant would be used for when you don't whant to deal with the trader or to buy ID kits etc.

hahman14 · Jul 10, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I believe that AH with a single institution should be implemented. As to getting rid of gold from the economy, as suggested, you should have to pay a set percentage fee to the amount you sold the item for. I guess like 10% to 20% depending on how high the price was.

GranDeWun · Jul 10, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

An alternative...a broker. I go to broker, hand in my UberDeathSwordofDeath, and set a price for it. Then I check at my leisure if anyone has bought it for that fixed price. If not, I can adjust the price. Disadvantage of auction: by definition, if you win, you overpaid...

Tactical-Dillusions · Jul 10, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I'm just wondering why an auction system wasn't implemented before release.

Definitely needs to be a global system/single institution to keep prices stable throughout the continent.

Would there need to be a selling fee? Most definitely, or everyone would be selling every little piece of junk they pick up and we would spend too much time digging in the bargain bin.
Perhaps a % of items value.

Has anyone seen the auction system in Project Entropia? That was nice to use (when i played that mmorpg) and it had few faults in the system.

Can't wait. Hope it comes soon.

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

I'm just wondering why an auction system wasn't implemented before release.

Definitely needs to be a global system/single institution to keep prices stable throughout the continent.

Would there need to be a selling fee? Most definitely, or everyone would be selling every little piece of junk they pick up and we would spend too much time digging in the bargain bin.
Perhaps a % of items value.

Has anyone seen the auction system in Project Entropia? That was nice to use (when i played that mmorpg) and it had few faults in the system.

Can't wait. Hope it comes soon.

The auction wasn't implemented before release because they wanted us to see how it was without an auction house for a while.

Galatea · Jul 10, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I don't think they realized how crazy trade spam and prices would be. During the betas, it wasn't so bad, but as more and more people played (and found more items) it became this:

/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\.
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\..
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\...
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\..
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\.
/// \\\ WTS SUPER UBER CRAZY OMG WOW 100K AND YOUR ARM AND LEG! /// \\\..

lol.

Zubrowka · Jul 11, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

A simple way to reduce trade spam is to banish trading to an island somewhere. It'd be more convinient for everyone. Sellers will sell quicker when the buyers all are in one place and vice versa.

Galatea · Jul 11, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Yeah - we'd still need districts though, to cut back on lag.. but at least, all the trade spam would be in a trade city/island, rather than in Lion's Arch & Ascalon.

Great idea!

Mike BMT · Jul 11, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Heres my little revision.

Forgive the horrible photoshopping, I really dont care enough to make it do anything but show what I think should be including.

Now, I think you should have to pay to put an item in the auction house, this would stop people from auctioning shitty items.

Also it would stop people from setting a ridiculous price because if it doesnt sell, the money you paid to put it on would be lost.

50g for a 3 hour auction

100g for an 8 hour

300g for a day

700g for a week.

Those are probably too high but whatever.

I also think a small percent (2-7?) Should be kept as a commission. This would be sort of a gold sink (Pay 50g to put an item on for auction, it sells for 1plat, pay 50g commission)

Also, make the action only say ROUGHLY how long until the auction is up, because that would cause people to spam a 1g higher bid, in the final seconds of the auction.

pretty much go by the rate (under 1 hour left, under 3, 5, 8, 15, day, 3 days, week)

And make it only for weapons.

Dyes, materials, runes, all have their own NPC.

This would be purely for weapons, offhands, and upgrades. And Possibly collectors Items.

Thats my 2 cents.

Erace · Jul 11, 2005, 11:18 AM // 11:18

similar to Final Fantasy FFXI, i like the idea m8, just curious, have u or did u used to play ffxi?

i would love to see this in the game.

Galatea · Jul 11, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Mike BMT:
Yay, more eye candy for the forum!
I like the 'hovering over the items' idea to see the extra details (such as the mods, etc.), that's awesome.

I totally agree with all the suggestions of a Listing Fee to place items on sale. This would prevent people from selling single wood planks, for example. However, the auction house would still be a good place to sell large stacks of materials (such as the stacks of 250).

Personally, I would like to see a standard, set listing fee - and keep the items in for no more, no less than 7 days (of course, unless the item was bought).

I don't like the idea of the current offer being shown, or that when time runs out, the current bidder has won the item. That's how eBay runs, and everyone knows eBay is to get the best deals that you can, buying cheaper than you could get anywhere else, usually. In your example, the Buyout Price is 100 platinum -- but what if after the seven days, the current offer remains at say, 20 platinum. The seller will still earn a profit, yes, but an undesirable one. Plus, with this system, I'm not sure how prices will stabilize because some people will want things strongly, while some will only want them 'if they can buy them cheap'.

By setting your buyout price when you place your item on auction, it should just remain shown, along with a list of maybe the past 7 bidders on the same/similar items. Anyone who bids lower than the reserve price you listed will see a message "You did not win the auction, your price was too low." and the first person to bid above the reserve price (even if with 1 gold over) will win the auction and the item automatically. The list of winning bids should be pretty similar, with fluctuations of at most maybe 1-2 platinum (because of stats on weapons, etc.).. and with items that are exactly the same, such as stacks of crafting materials, the prices should be roughly the same, with minor differences only in a couple gold.

If the item doesn't sell after seven days, then that sucks, it doesn't sell. You do not get your listing fee back, and you will be given the option to re-auction your item for another 7 days (for another listing fee, of course, nothing is free).

After having the Traders implemented for a while, I think you're right, the Auction House should probably not carry Dyes, Single Common Materials, and Single Rare Materials. Personally, I still hate the Rune Trader - almost everything is worth 25 gold to him, Minor, Major, or Superior. And Minor Vigor, the Trader refuses to accept from me. Is the Rune Trader destroying gold? Sure, I think so, but I feel like the runes I find could go to actual use sometimes, and I'd hate to just have them put into the trader for 25 gold when I could sell it for even an extra 25 gold to someone else who could use it.

Collector's Items should definitely be located in the Auction House (items like bleached shells, etc.), but maybe not the Collector's Weapons/Offhand items.

Erace:
Yeah, I played FFXI for a few months and the Auction House was my favorite thing about that game, next to the TaruTaru /panic.

Erace · Jul 11, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

hahahahaha
have to agree with u on that.
Funnily enough i was going to suggest an auction house but probably not in as much detail, i thought ppl would think it was a bad idea, but i am proven wrong.

Galatea · Jul 11, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I think the idea is shot down a lot because:
1) it's been suggested a LOT and
2) no one can agree on a single way to actually house it.

Some want player-shops, some want eBay style, some like my idea ^_-, some want traders for everything.

I would just like to see something implemented to make trading a lot easier, less stressful, and less time consuming than the current spam trade system, where it is nearly impossible to buy or sell unless you get lucky or have hours to spend in Lion's Arch District 1 squinting your eyes and scrolling.

Erace · Jul 11, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

im all for the Auction House idea, it works so well on ffxi, and i hate trying to sell stuff in Trade, my messages are always drowned out by the spammers who post their message every 2 seconds.

jsmp01 · Jul 12, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

the way they could get round the trade spam would be to limit your posts to say once every X secs no matter how u change it in the trade channel & if people decide to use the 'all' channel they can just add a function where you can report a player by right clicking their name, if enough people do it (say 5 people need to report them) then they are banned from using that channel for a period of time, you could also use it to report scammers, abusive people, people advertising bots etc. This could be a short term solution till the auction house/ebay is implemented.

As for the AH/EB ideas

You need to have the current offer so that you can see how much you have to bid and whether you want to or not, otherwise people will just bid in 1g increments till they find the minimum amount as for the displaying the time as only roughly it would have to be a random change over as well because otherwise for the really good stuff people would sit there till the clock changed to "under 3 hours" and then they would know exactly when, also someone would make a sniping program for GW and that can sit there for hours get the timings and then bidding in the last second or whatever.

I also think 7 days is to long for an auction, 7 days in GW is a long time, have it over a day as there are more than enough items out there. You could do it internationally (as there is no need to have direct contact between the buyer & seller) this would help stabilise prices a lot quicker. Also have a running average: the last one hundred 'fiery dragon swords' X dmg were sold on average for 2p300. Items that have a higher turnover have a larger running average & if it was world wide it would stabilise all three economies much quicker

Xanthar · Jul 12, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

As I see it, the Auction House would have two quite different goals:

1. Make selling and purchasing items from the playerbase easier
2. Reduce the amount of trade spam in all channels

The first has been discussed a lot in this thread, whereas the second still remains somewhat obscure - That is, the auction system, however it is implemented must be easier and more attractive to use than to spam the channels, hoping for a buyer.

Incentives of use:
* Wide scope - If the auction house is reachable for all players across the world at the same time, thus providing a much wider market for the sellers.
* Reduced workload - If the seller does no longer need to divert attention to the selling process, and can go about his/her (farming) business as usual.
* High usage - An auction house that is widely used by many players will be an attractive market to sell at.

Deterrants of use:
* Fees and comissions - If a fee is taken, low priced items will be unattractive to sell via the auction house.
* Small scope - If the auction house is segmented into the three regions/various cities/individual instances.
* Low usage - An auction house that only attract buyers of extremely expensive and/or rare items are unlikely to attract the majority of sellers.

In any case, I am strongly for the adoption of an auction house in GuildWars. It would provide a wide market and drive the prices down considerably of a great many items. On the other hand, ultra-rare items would likely have very large prices, as even excessive farmers seldom see this kind of thing. But that is all good and well - Auctions are actually an excellent way to determine the reasonable price of an item, the ideal supply/demand situation if you will.

For people wishing for a quick resolution of the auction, perhaps a Dutch auction model would be nice? See the Wikipedia entry if you don't know about it

Naturally, the reserved price should be secret...

Darksci · Jul 12, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

"players may decide to sell items like superior runes only in droknar's forge auction houses, making it nearly impossible to attain one until after ascension"

Why can't you make all the aution houses be linked up? Personally i don't like the idea of having to going to each of the major cities to find out which prices is the cheapest. I mean the traders are linked up (i think - since the price of a dye i wanted was the same in ascalon, forge and lions arch).

Of course if you plan to put one in Pre-searing, then duh thats unlinked then (said that so that no smartass asks it).

If you say that these are far apart and that they are in different cities - well this is a virtual world - how does our storage get transfered from Ring of Fire to Ascalon or Lion's Arch (when the White Mantle wants to kill us).

Thats my suggestion.